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Il 22 giugno 2012 Gangs of Wasseypur I veniva distribuito nelle sale indiane. Per celebrare il decimo anniversario, vi ripropongo l'intervista concessa nella stessa data da Anurag Kashyap, Manoj Bajpayee, Richa Chadha e Huma Qureshi a The Indian Express (il cui sito conserva gli archivi di Screen, testata chiusa nel 2015). Join the gang:
'Richa, how did you feel being part of a male-dominated film? Are the women in the film docile?
Richa Chadha: I feel very blessed to be among the few women in Wasseypur. Although it is a male-dominated film, the women are very strong. (...) The women in the film dominate their husbands who are very docile at home. Manoj's character, Sardar Khan, is of the opinion that his wife enjoys giving birth to his children, just so that she can refuse to have sex with him! Women are always pregnant with his children. That's why they are always running away from sex. (...)
Anurag Kashyap: All the women around Sardar Khan are always pregnant. So he is always looking for women who are not pregnant. (...) When I wrote the script of Gangs of Wasseypur, I decided to get Richa on board. (...) When I told her, she didn't believe me for a very long time!
Richa: Yes, I did not believe him. I mean, how can you expect a newcomer to believe an established director when he tells her, "I'll work with you someday." I told myself, "Yeah, sure you will." (Everyone laughs). (...) When I first met him, he asked if I would do the role and I said, 'I'll be a curtain in your film if you ask me to. Do you want me to be a curtain?' I remember vividly, he had called me on August 15, 2010 and asked me if I would do this film. I started crying. I didn't know what else to do.
Manoj, what was your reaction when Anurag asked you to come on-board and did you also become emotional? What was it like to work with him?
Manoj: On the contrary, I think we finished two bottles of wine. Anurag and I share a very long association right from Satya days. We have quite an interesting history.
Anurag: Rather, we have a tumultuous history. Our relationship had passion, emotion and drama. It was almost like an affair! We even shared a room - rather we used to sleep on the same bed.
So you had a lover's tiff ...?
Anurag: No, it was sulking. I was sulking for 10 years. I understood Manoj as an actor and he respected me as a writer. We made a picture together. However, after Shool, I had a big fallout with Ram Gopal Varma. I had two really bad experiences one after another, both in the same year. That is when I decided to make my own films. I am very focussed as far as filmmaking is concerned and I like to work on one film at a time. I am involved in every aspect of my films, right from writing the script to the minutest details. I was baffled when I wanted to make Paanch with Manoj and he refused. Later, I discovered that Manoj had something else in mind.
Manoj: You've heard him out, now this is my version. Anurag had told me that he planned to shoot on the date which coincided with Ramu's film Jungle. I told Anurag that let's talk to Ramu and solve the problem. This is one friendly conversation that you can have with your friend whom you are having breakfast, lunch, snacks and drinks with. And also discussing girls! But he started sulking and it went on for 10 years. I mean, I would have divorced a woman like this. It was me who doggedly persisted and he can't deny that. And then, Gangs of Wasseypur happened. I got a call from him at 10.30 in the night. (...) I told him to order two bottles of wine and within an hour, I reached his office. By the middle of the narration, we were drunk. (...) Jokes apart, with Anurag it was never about whether I'll do the film or not. It's not only the relationship that we share but the fact that he is one of the most creative persons with whom I have worked with. He has helped me carve my career with three landmark films - Satya, Kaun and Shool. It was also a hint to the industry about the kind of films I wanted to do. (...)
Tell us Anurag, how much of the film is based on reality?
Anurag: Everything that you see in the film is 100 per cent true. However, we have fictionalised the characters and names. To camouflage the real story, we have muddled up the timelines. What happened in the 90s, we have shown it happening in 80s and vice-versa. Then, we also combined characters. The stepson in the film, in reality, is not the stepson. Tishu (Tigmanshu Dhulia) plays a combination of three different characters. Tishu's character in reality actually died in 1991. We incorporated characteristics of another character. We have woven three characters into one so as to dramatise the events as we could not use real names. Otherwise, it's a very broken story. It could become a television series and not a film. In a film like Black Friday we used real names, because people have a reference point from which the whole story could be told but since we could not use real names, we had to dramatically change everything and subtly reveal the reality. Everything you see in the movie, the incidents, the dialogues are familiar to every little kid in Wasseypur, right from who said it to whom.
Could you elaborate as because all we know is that it's about three generations of a family, the coal-mafia, set in Wasseypur.
Manoj: (In jest) For that you have to spend Rs300 to Rs500.
Anurag: I had wanted to make a film on Bihar for a long time. One day, two boys, Sachin and Akhilesh walked up to me and gave me a script. They told me that they had written the script which was sure to win an Oscar! I read the script with cynicism, thinking now here are two young boys making tall claims. But when I read the script, it was the film, The City of Joy which had already won an Oscar! All that the two boys had done was to pick up characters from newspaper articles and incorporate it in their story. They introduced me to Zeeshan, who is the main writer of the film. He came with newspaper cuttings to support his story. I started reading up articles and everything that was not included in the story was interesting. I needed to know more and since I wanted to make a film on Bihar, I sent my team, Jay Mehta and my assistant directors with Zeeshan to Wasseypur. They lived there for a month and collected a lot of material, which I started reading and as time passed, I got more obsessed with the idea of making a film. Since the material they had collected was huge, I asked Zeeshan to compress it into a graphic novel of about 140 pages.
The film describes the strife in Bihar and the emergence of mafia. Anywhere in the world, you will find that mafia emerged when something which was freely available to the people was controlled by few. There is the middleman whose job was to supply and control the labour. When the Britishers left, workers thought that their land will come back to them and they would reap the benefit, but it did not happen. Government designated few powerful people who were industrialists. Except for Tatas, none of them knew how to handle the mines. The rest of them hired local supervisors who became powerful. To control them, the labour minister was brought in who formed a union, which in turn became the powerful mafia.
Wasseypur is just a part of Dhanbad which has undergone boundary changes many times. Earlier it was a part of Bengal, then Bihar and later of Jharkhand. With every changing boundary, new people came in and since Dhanbad was the only rich source of minerals, the people there were subjected to exploitation. The film documents the power changes that took place over the years. The story, till the 2007-8 is told through three generations of this family, their passions and internal conflicts. Through that I have woven the tale of how the mafia works. Their dealings outside their home showcase what is happening around them. As they are involved with coal mines, the film is about the coal-mafia. Midway through the second half of Part 1, the film moves away from coal and covers issues like sand mining, wood, contracts, auctions and other mafia activities. It's a huge canvas, encompassing 65 years in 2 parts with 700 scenes, all told within a cinematic span of 5 hours 20 minutes. The film moves like a bullet train, blink and you will miss something.
Did you plan to shoot the film in two parts right from the beginning or was it decided later?
Anurag: No, we always knew that the film will be shot in two parts. In the middle, we were thinking of dividing the film into three parts. If you see where Part 1 ends it was shot precisely thinking that it will end here. So there is a thought process to it. I wanted to tell the whole story. It is important to tell the story in a context, especially when the idea is untouched. It is about the criminals of Wasseypur but the entire area is not criminal.
Manoj, tell us about your character.
Manoj: My character Sardar Khan belongs to the second generation. He is somebody who doesn't have any sense of right and wrong or of morality. He loves sex and women and is obsessed with the idea of revenge. How far he chases the whole idea of revenge is something you will have to see in the film. He is obsessed with sex in the entire film. The pursuit of power is subconsciously inherent in him. He is always seeking control, but somewhere, he keeps diverting from his goals because of women.
Tell us Huma, was it intimidating to rub shoulders with such talented actors and of course, a very talented director?
Huma: Yes, everyday Anurag had to tell me that I was doing absolutely fine and there was no reason for me to be nervous and insecure.
Anurag: Huma actually went through a tough time, because she was the only one who was kept out of all the narrations. She was never given the script because her character was only in my mind. I thought if she'll read the script, she'll think she has been exploited. She would think, "I am not being given any role and they have taken my dates". We also kept her out of all the workshops.
Huma: I was very baffled as I didn't know what to expect. I was thinking I might have to do a lot of research before playing my character but during the shoot, everything was improvised upon. Now when I think about it, I believe it made the character more fun. If we had done too much of research or planning behind it, we would have killed it.
Richa: I had even ordered two books of acting (...) before the shoot actually began. I made small notes regarding the kind of emotion that goes with a particular scene but on the second day itself, Anurag sir discovered my book and read out everything that I had written to the whole unit. He made fun of me and tore away my script. From then on, I was forced to act on instinct.
Huma: I think, Anurag believes in exploring the capabilities in his actors. I feel the entire process is nice but can be a little intimidating for a newbie like me. However, I feel I have grown a lot as an actor after that.
Did you conduct any workshops for your actors or do you believe in complete spontaneity?
Anurag: No, we never conducted any acting workshops, they were a kind of relationship building exercise. We did a 15 day workshop where we only talked about ourselves. I spoke about myself and made people talk about themselves. And when they did, I stole ideas from their lives and turned them into scenes. The atmosphere becomes very alive whether we are shooting or not. It feels like we are doing something together. There is no sense of neglect in any individual and that is very important to make a film.
Huma: Yes, a lot of scenes are actually from personal experiences. All of us cried at some point in the workshop and shared very intimate secrets.
Richa: It also changes everything. The 10 days of interaction made us feel very comfortable. Hence, there was no awkwardness on the first day of the shoot. We felt like a family.
But then isn't it risky to do things spontaneously all the time ?
Anurag: No, I come from a theatre background and I have been doing this for almost 20 years now. I try to free the space for an actor and let them become one with the character. I have never told my actors what to do. Only when something goes wrong, I tell them not to do it.
Do you tell actors in your film to act in a particular way?
Manoj: It is one of the most pathetic ways of telling an actor how to act in front of the camera. It completely limits the actor, not giving him space to grow or to explore. I have had many experiences with directors telling me how to act and I would go completely blank.
Richa: It clips your wings as a performer.
Speaking of directors, how good is Tigmanshu Dhulia as an actor?
Anurag: He is a very good actor. An NSD [National School of Drama] graduate, he has studied direction. He also studied acting in his first year. It was my casting director (...) who thought of him. It was exciting to convince him and get him on-board.
Do directors make good actors?
Manoj: Both Anurag and Tigmanshu are good actors because of their theatre background. However that's not a rule. I have seen some pathetic actors who are directors. It's like how all actors won't make good directors, all directors don't always make good actors.
Manoj, since you hail from Bihar were there any personal experiences or references that you incorporated in the film?
Manoj: On the contrary, I come from a different part of Bihar. It's more towards the north, near the Nepal border. I have never been to Dhanbad in my entire life. I went to Ranchi once but I have never been to Jharia and Dhanbad. For me, there was no reference for Sardar Khan. I have never seen a man who has no sense of morality. The world that I come from has crimes but the nature of those crimes is very different. There is no organised crime.
Commercial blockbusters these days have mindless content. Given that you are an experimental filmmaker, do you feel sad about it? Would you ever want to make a mindless movie?
Anurag: These are two different questions. I am not sad about these films making a lot of money, because (...) it is very helpful for me. A studio who has a series of 10 big flops, would not have the courage to do a film like Gangs... (...) I can't make these films because anything that you do should come from your inner conviction. My conviction is Gangs of Wasseypur. (...)
Can you tell us a little about the shooting technique used in the film?
Anurag: There is no shooting technique as such. We have mastered the art of making films with no money. We had no other choice but to shoot with whatever we had. So if I put you in a condition, your survival instinct will teach you anything. We didn't have the money to pay junior artists for a crowd scene, so we started shooting wherever we saw a crowd. It's much easier now because we have 5D's and 7D's, smaller cameras etc. For this particular scene in Part 2, a chase scene in a traffic jam between a bike and a scooter, we created our own traffic jam as we neither had the vehicles or people to create a jam. We used to create illegal jams. And by the time someone realised it, we would shoot and run. Next day, we would shoot on a different road. Hidden cameras are where people do not realise that a shooting is going on. And even actors shouldn't know where the camera is as they have a tendency to look in the direction of camera.
Are there any scenes where people are caught in the mines? What about the blast scenes?
Anurag: Our film starts on that note. We filled the mine with water. For the blast shot, you actually have to go there and see the scale of the mine to understand that it can't be recreated. You can't make an artificial set of it. You can't imagine it visually. We have travelled and waited for hours to get the shot of a mine blast. The most expensive shot in the film, which would have cost Rs1.5 crore was shot without incurring any expense. That's how you make films without money.
Which are the other places that you shot in, apart from Wasseypur?
Anurag: We have shot across many villages. In fact, very little has been actually shot in Wasseypur. It's very difficult to shoot there as we also had the restriction of creating and showing the same city and towns that existed six decades ago. There was no electricity in 1941. The houses were made of mud. So we found a village where the houses of these kinds were there. And we gradually progressed from small towns into bigger cities. We had to shoot in six different places to create that look of transition. Manoj's house in the film is actually where my brother Abhinav and I were born and grew up. We shot there for the middle period. To recreate Dhanbad, we shot in the interiors of Benaras which is still undeveloped.
And no objections from the ministries?
Anurag: Objections will happen only when they see the film. The film is so extensively researched and documented, everything is based on what is available on a public domain and has been widely reported. So there is nothing objectionable in the film'.
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